I just don’t believe that. In my favorite shop there are several versions of HL and HL2 around and nobody cares because they sell. Even if this was true, Valve could have chosen the black box for the PC because everyone interested in HL2:EP2 surely has HL2 and EP1. That’s an unfair way of milking the customer, nothing more!

“The newest generation consoles don’t have copies of HL2 en Ep1 yet, so deleting the Black Box instead of the Orange box is the obvious choice.”

No, offer the orange box for the consoles and the black box for the PC then. Also it seems that even on Steam directly it is not possible to buy any of the new games on their own .

i think because valve hasent focused on what is the prime importance of Episodic releases (STORY STORY STORY!!!) but rather trying to tack as much new tech onto a now aging source engin, that they are really shooting themselves in the foot. once again that ties into the whole expansion vs full game thing.

i think if valve plays this smart they can still make a come back. leave the latest buzzwords for a REborn HL3 and just finish the gdam HL2 story as quickly as possable

i looked and what you said is true. 26.99 for both.

but

here, on steam, TOB is being sold for almost twice as much as episode 2 (ep2:29.99 and TOB:44.99 after a discount)

i am also upset with the wait we had to endure, and to make matters worse these 3 episodes are technically HL3.

fine you want to release little mini plots and storys? whatever new content is welcomed. if its at the cost of a full fledged game though (HL3 SHOULD be a full game damnit) then your now steppin on my toes and pissing me right off

something isint right

re. #26, Oopia, you’ve got some great prompts for stories there. It’d be cool if modders or Valve took up some of your ideas. Interestingly, Valve have hinted that the way we perceive Freeman will shift in episode 2. A trailer shows Alyx clinging for life from a girder (a bridge support?), saying “Gordon?” Interesting.

As for why Sin episodes fell apart, I understand it was because Sin:Emergence didn’t garner great reviews and/or didn’t reach sales targets. I bought Emergence but I doubt I would have bothered with a Sin:ep.2.

Thanks Anon. I am very interested by the whole Alyx dying possibility. If you as Gordon have to make a choice about saving Alyx, and letting others die, that would be memorable game play.

As for why Sin episodes fell apart, I understand it was because Sin:Emergence didn’t garner great reviews and/or didn’t reach sales targets. I bought Emergence but I doubt I would have bothered with a Sin:ep.2.

Valve didn’t cancel the Black Box. The publishers did, because the shops don’t want multiple copies of the same game, because they want to shelf out as many games as possible.
The newest generation consoles don’t have copies of HL2 en Ep1 yet, so deleting the Black Box instead of the Orange box is the obvious choice.

Good point and now that I think about it. It is a good deal. As a developer myself I know how much work goes into this stuff.

I have preorded and preloaded the orange box haha.

Anyway. Valve canceled the Black Box! That made me mad. Valve is one of the few companies I actually spend my money on. But thats about to change!

Valve didn’t cancel the Black Box. The publishers did, because the shops don’t want multiple copies of the same game, because they want to shelf out as many games as possible.
The newest generation consoles don’t have copies of HL2 en Ep1 yet, so deleting the Black Box instead of the Orange box is the obvious choice.

I think the problem with episodic content from Valve is that they want to put all newest technologies in the episodes to stay at the top, which is not a bad thing, but then there’s no way of predicting how long it’s gonna take to finish every episode.
Yes the gaps are too large if you want to make episodic gaming to work. But then again, you do get some awesome stuff, so I am not complaining too much.

I can replay the HL games multiple times, so I don’t lose the story after a while. HL is one of the few games I can play multiple times and still enjoy very much.

On one point it does suck you buy games you already have, on the other hand the Orange Box is really not a bad deal, if you consider a lot of other games they ask 50 buks for. And if my memory serves me well, the Orange Box wasn’t a lot more expensive than the Black Box should have been.

To make it short, the Orange Box is certainly a good deal if you’re also interested in TF2 and Portal, but everybody should make up his own mind if he finds it a worthy investment or not.

I do think that the whole “Sin episodes” thing falling apart bares mentioning, but I do no know the details, so I cannot provide informed comment on the matter, If anyone else can, please do, because I would like to know the details.

-Oopla

Episodic content: IMHO

Anyway. Valve canceled the Black Box! That made me mad. Valve is one of the few companies I actually spend my money on. But thats about to change!

I just preloaded at Steam because the box was 44,95, which seeing the EP1 and HL2 I already have, was even “cheap”

I truly believe that the Orange Box is excellent value for money. You only have to look at what you get. But considering I already own the games I want and I can’t ransfer the duplkicates (legal) without a charge, it seems a bit unfair.

Does anyone here doubt that by the time HL2:E3 is released Valve will find another excuse to make you pay for all the other games once again?

Man, boy, did I like this comment… I have also got really mad seeing they are oliguing me of buying things I already got just to increase the overall valor. But, lok I just preloaded at Steam because the box was 44,95, which seeing the EP1 and HL2 I already have, was even “cheap”. Or not after all. They show the individual package or whatever would come along at 88 bucks. Well, IDC they are abusing it for making money. I preloaded being illuded it was advantage, but it was not! I am paying for Portal which I wont really play this kind of game and TF2, which, well I dont really care with that. I would love to se the Black Box back, you know, “just” Portal, TF2(which is fun anyway) and HL2 EP2, the chief car of the entire shit.

If TV series’ were more like games, I’d rather wait a little while longer for a good show than watch a **** show anyday. Not to mention it’s a recurring theme with independant animations online. Patience! I think Shigeru Miyamoto once said something like “A good game might be delayed. A bad game is forever.”

I’m not asking for Episode everyday, or even month. All I want is a clearly defined scehdule that is set in stone.

Obviously I want high-quality mods and I am prepared to wait. In fact I think I am more patient than most becasue I would prefer to wait 5 years for a complete game!

Look at TV series, they record the entire thing and then show them

THAT’S MY WHOLE POINT.

Finish the series then release it every six months. Even get people to pay for it up front. The players don’t have to know that VAlve has finished it.

(P.S. Phillip, design is coming along.)

Great, please don’t forget the bit of code related to the readers awards.

Still, I did say it was made up of JUST the installers and downloaded .zips and .rars.

My steam mod directory is merely 454 MB (Two mods to be precise.) while my WON Half-Life directory just has 273 MB worth of custom modifications. (Four mods to be precise.) Pitiful, eh?

Still, you’re pretty ‘hardcore’ there, Danny, having EVERYTHING installed. I – um – guess it’s more convenient if you have it all ready to play instead of having to extract/install or even download it again!

You should rant more often.

I forgot to mention – Yes, I agree. As I said before, this rant was ACTUALLY a good read.

cheers,
itsonlydanny

HOLY HEADCRABS
That sound like a lot of money, but you know best. AT the moment Ep1 is on sale on Steam for $9.99, which is a bargain.

It’s true. I was thinking of grabbing The Orange Box off of Steam, but I’ve got a really crap internet plan, (The speed is decent: 256Kbps. But I get shaped to 64Kbps when I exceed 1GB.) so it’s best for me to get it retail so I’ve got all the data at my fingertips! (And who doesn’t like hard copies? )

I am a bit surprised by your comment ‘I never replay games or mods’ not even Half-Life 1? Sometimes a second play can be more rewarding then the first, I like to explore and often play though some mods looking and finding content I missed first time.

Yes, I agree. I recently played Half-Life 2 again and found something in the ‘Sandtraps’ chapter I’ve never even seen or heard of before! The Ep.1 commentary track is also worth playing through again. I mentioned this ages ago, but Deus Ex 1 provides many reasons to replay it, one is that you can nearly discover at least one new thing during each run! (I have.)

I will admit that my backup hard drive has around 3GB of mod .zips, .rars and .exe installers – Some from about 2-3 years ago! My main harddrive has a ‘Downloads’ folder of my recent stuff and it amounts to nearly 1GB! (Although some of it would be separate software and drivers, since I recently reformatted.)

If TV series’ were more like games, I’d rather wait a little while longer for a good show than watch a crap show anyday. Not to mention it’s a recurring theme with independant animations online. Patience! I think Shigeru Miyamoto once said something like “A good game might be delayed. A bad game is forever.”

““Why bother to pay 30 dollars when some mods are of equal quality (Some think better) and are free?”.”

Because some mods do have some impressive stuff. Thing is, they probably dont have an on-site office to work with a big team, don’t have top-notch voice actors, custom modelers, riggers, animators, sound artists, and (usually) don’t have MASSIVE fan bases to rant about delays to keep them moving.

If Minerva taught me something, it’s Valve supplies modders with some cool new aspects to throw in to their creations (like the portal effects!? WOAH!). That’s all I got for now. I’m too tired to go on…

Yes, I did agree the downside is redownloading the same stuff, but I see this has the only drawback.

If tweaking means improving, adding new content sorting out bugs then release as much
as you like, but then you dont replay mods, so this point maybe lost to you Phillip.

You should rant more often.

Nice rant, I enjoyed it and you should do it more often.

Thanks, maybe I will.

I personally prefer to play through the first chapters again before the new.

I don’t. I’ve neer, ever replayed a game or mod that I can think of.

Not everybody is happy about having to download the same thing three times (In the case of the first part).

You could argue that an author can keep tweaking his mod and re-releasing it. But for how long?

I respect Adam’s right to release his mods the way he sees fit, and my voice won’t change his mind, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Agree with all you said on the retail and commercial side of the business but not your references to the custom side, which you should always remember is not profit making based.

I am one of those players that are now disillusioned with Valve and their marketing policies. I purchased Episode 1 when it first came out and it’s still placed in my bookshelf unopened waiting for the next episodes before a play through. I have long since lost interest and much prefer to play custom mods anyway. The current Valve policy would seem to be one of trying to either sell you something you don’t want or already have. I agree we should do something about it before it gets worst. I for one will not be buying any packaged or bundled products from Valve, I may in time buy the single episode release as the price comes down to a sensible cost. What’s the points in rushing around buying something that is overprice and contains a load of stuff you already have and paid for. We have the advantage and can be more then happy playing our custom mods.

The gap between retail and custom games is closing and there is no need for me to give the PP community any examples, if this gap continues to close there may come a time when we don’t need Valve and the like, come to think of it, I believe I am already at that point.

Now the bit I don’t agree with, the reference to custom episode releases, what ever you think (Phillip) we must all respect the authors right and reasons for releasing this way. There are reasons why I can see that this is a good way for an author to release and the only real issue that the player has is the size of the download each time. I for one can live with that and with ingame chapter menu you can select weather you play the new chapter first or not. Also releasing this way, in theory gives the author a chance to tweak and update the first parts such that we all have the latest levels, I personally prefer to play through the first chapters again before the new.

Whilst I am not happy with the way Valve are releasing their HL produces I am more then happy with the likes of Adam releasing his hard work anyway he sees fit, one major difference being Valve are asking me to pay for the privilege while the likes of Adam seem content just knowing we are enjoying and appreciate their work.

It should be stated how many parts we can expect, so that we can properly prepare ourselves mentally.

I agree that we should be told upfront how many parts to expect. Both Valve and Adam Foster have done this.

Here’s another question for you (Well, everyone)

“Exactly how long are you prepared to wait for each epsiode?” One year, 18 months, 2 yeras, 3, 5?

One thing I admire (Amongst many!) about Foster is that he doesn’t tease you, he just says, “It’s coming out tomorrow.”

When I eventually make and release something I will have it finished and then start a countdown.

I am hopeful that after a few months the price will go down from $30 to a more realistic $25 or even $20 on Steam.

In all honesty I’m not sure I would buy it now even if it was $5. I really want to play the damn thing but I’d rather wait until I have part 3 before playing it. Of course I understand that’s most likely me and a few other weirdos.

For what it’s worth, I was happy to buy ep 1 when it came out and I’ve cheerfully pre-ordered the ep 2 package (I can’t wait to play Portal!).

I pre-order Episode 1 too, but I don’t want to play Portal and don’t see why I should have to pay for games I already own.

I’ve said this before but Valve should start both a loyalty scheme and also a points system. $X buyers Z points which can be redeemed against any Steam product. If you have points left over they stay on your account until something else comes out you want to buy.

These points are drifting off the Episodic rant but in some ways they are linked because of being forced to pay in stages.

If Valve said to me “Hey Phillip, do you know how much it costs to develop a great game. We need cash flow!! I’d say, “Ok, Gabe, here’s my thirty bucks now, go build the damn thing and give me a great game that new buyers have to pay more for! Think of me a a sort of investor.

And these are 1000 page epics, not a piffling little alien invasion story that underpins a game. I’m not entirely convinced a story is spoilt by having gaps in the telling.

Yes, but how would you feel if the books were 200 pages long? That’s kind of what we are getting with episodic content.

I don’t mind waitng 5 years, if that’s what it takes. What I don’t like is being given the impression that Episodic content will get the games into my hand much, much faster. Yes, I do get a game faster but it’s too short.

Give me a Half-Life 2 every 5 years and I’m happy.

As for some HL2 mods surpassing the efforts from Valve… I’ve yet to play one.

Well some would disagree. Minerva is at least equal.

Living in Australia, I simply found Episode 1 to be a bargain. Seriously, it was about $32 when first released, compared to most new releases that come up around $99. (One exception was S.T.A.L.K.E.R., which I gobbled up for a measly $65 – Give or take – right on release here!)

HOLY HEADCRABS
That sound like a lot of money, but you know best. AT the moment Ep1 is on sale on Steam for $9.99, which is a bargain.

By the way, nice rant, Phillip! That was quite a good read.

Thank you.

Thus that, making episodic releases in Half Life will make them rivers of money, probably even more if they were to Launch an Half Life 3

You are right, but as a player and buyer of games Valve’s financial model is of no interest to me. I want value for money and I ahve no hesitation that I do get that with all of Valves products, although not Steam.

You could purchase the episode as soon as it was finished or wait to buy the whole season. This is a great strategy for companies because they don’t have to fund an entire project for a few years and wonder if it will be successful.

I would support that if the release schedule were sensible. As I said above, I’d even pay upfront for a game. I rtust Valve in that regard.
I just feel cheated about delivery, bjut that’s Valve all over. HAve they ever released anything on time? Seriously, it’s a real question.

You would have thought they would have leanrt by now. Unless it’s a cynical marketing ploy which has been suggested many times.

And to go off topic slightly, I think Valve had made some great strides in the way games are developed and sold i.e. Steam and digital distribution, and freebies like Lost Coast and Deathmatch. There attitude to the modding community is excellent.

Some folks give Valve a rough ride (I understand Steam had some wrinkles in it in the early days), but on the whole Valve are a cool company.

The ‘bargain’ stature was further justified by the fact that – unlike many people – I simply LOVED the game despite the length.

But the length was what I paid for and I’m fine with that.

The Orange Box is going to clock around $99 here, though, but remember, it does have 5 games in it! For me, that’s 3 games to chew – What a bargain! (And the fact that it includes HL2 and EP.1 isn’t a ‘waste’. The ‘gifts’ Steam feature justifies that.)

Apart from money, however, you’ve (Phillip and bobdog.) made good points.

Ultimately, Valve’s experiment failed (Unlike, say, Telltale games, who’s Sam & Max episodes were a success in their format.) due to the length between releases plus the satisfaction it gave the players. (The latter obviously doesn’t apply to me – I’m trying to be broad here.)

Still, I love Valve. I can’t say ‘NO’ to ANY of their games.

Plus – I highly, wholeheartedly doubt that Valve will continue with episodic development due to the reaction of most people.

But even if they do, I stand by them. That’s all I have to say.

—

By the way, nice rant, Phillip! That was quite a good read. (It’s good to vent ones self once in a while!)

I think Bobdog makes a good point when he mentions reading books that a part of a series. I’n reading book 3 of George R R Martin’s “Song of Ice and Fire” series, of which 7 books are proposed. There are 4 books so far with as long as a 5 year lapse in between each book being written. And these are 1000 page epics, not a piffling little alien invasion story that underpins a game. I’m not entirely convinced a story is spoilt by having gaps in the telling.

As for some HL2 mods surpassing the efforts from Valve… I’ve yet to play one.

A downside of episodic gaming was highlighted when the follow up to Sin:Emergence never appeared. Little chance of that happening with Valve and the HL franchise though.

So, on the whole, I’m quite happy with episodic releases, especially when games like Portal are developed and released in tandem.

(By the way, Bobdog, did you know Robert Jordan has recently died halfway through writing the 12th and final book?)