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	<title>Comments on: Ghost In The Game</title>
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	<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/</link>
	<description>Finishing Half-Life is just the beginning!</description>
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		<title>By: Toby Elliot Newt</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-209065</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Elliot Newt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-209065</guid>
		<description>Yes , this is all very interesting.
I&#039;ve got loads and loads of books about consciousness and what &quot;i/I&quot; means.
The best one I&#039;ve read is of Douglas Hofstadter: I am a strang loop.  Goes very deep into this matter, he even drags video-feedback into the play.
Nice SITE btw, just discovered it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes , this is all very interesting.<br />
I&#8217;ve got loads and loads of books about consciousness and what &#8220;i/I&#8221; means.<br />
The best one I&#8217;ve read is of Douglas Hofstadter: I am a strang loop.  Goes very deep into this matter, he even drags video-feedback into the play.<br />
Nice SITE btw, just discovered it.
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		<title>By: Freyband</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208686</link>
		<dc:creator>Freyband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208686</guid>
		<description>OK I&#039;ve always seen the human mind in itself as being a machine. The brain to me always seemed to have many vital parts to us running properly. What your asking seems to be more asking if our brain is more of a port where the things that make us who we are (I guess what one usually calls a soul) connect and allow us to &quot;be here.&quot; In all honesty I have no clue, and by the time any answer is truly found, I figure we will be dust. Well based upon the topic our bodies will be at least. Also if you have any issues with my answer sorry I&#039;m just a 15 year old kid who&#039;s pretty fricken clueless :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK I&#8217;ve always seen the human mind in itself as being a machine. The brain to me always seemed to have many vital parts to us running properly. What your asking seems to be more asking if our brain is more of a port where the things that make us who we are (I guess what one usually calls a soul) connect and allow us to &#8220;be here.&#8221; In all honesty I have no clue, and by the time any answer is truly found, I figure we will be dust. Well based upon the topic our bodies will be at least. Also if you have any issues with my answer sorry I&#8217;m just a 15 year old kid who&#8217;s pretty fricken clueless <img src='http://www.planetphillip.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: C:15761 &#187; Podcast 17</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208666</link>
		<dc:creator>C:15761 &#187; Podcast 17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208666</guid>
		<description>[...] PlanetPhillip: Ghost in the Game [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] PlanetPhillip: Ghost in the Game [...]
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		<title>By: Jasper</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208370</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read this post several times and find it verging on the religious. I stand by the tenet &#039; discussing politics and religion with friends should be avoided&#039; else you might make enemies. I&#039;ll desist then.
However, I might understand what you are getting at in an overall sense because it is inconceivable that when you die your conciousness (soul?) dies with you.
On a practical note: Gaming, HL or otherwise, is sheer escapism becasuse you become part of the game and the real world spins without you; I see nothing deeper than that.
On a jocular note: From your post &quot;what happens if you move your brain outside your body&quot; answer - you cease to feel very well! - or feel at all actually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read this post several times and find it verging on the religious. I stand by the tenet &#8216; discussing politics and religion with friends should be avoided&#8217; else you might make enemies. I&#8217;ll desist then.<br />
However, I might understand what you are getting at in an overall sense because it is inconceivable that when you die your conciousness (soul?) dies with you.<br />
On a practical note: Gaming, HL or otherwise, is sheer escapism becasuse you become part of the game and the real world spins without you; I see nothing deeper than that.<br />
On a jocular note: From your post &#8220;what happens if you move your brain outside your body&#8221; answer &#8211; you cease to feel very well! &#8211; or feel at all actually.
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		<title>By: Aniline</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208351</link>
		<dc:creator>Aniline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208351</guid>
		<description>Nice angle, Philip. Existential philosophy x HL = ?
Before we transfer our consciousness into the next CPU, we have to ask what we are really transferring. 

Consciousness is &quot;only&quot; a complex mix of real and virtual thoughts - basically, billions of neurons firing in a controlled way. With enough memory and processing power, we will get that into a machine one day. 

But would it then have consciousness? I don&#039;t think so, because it won&#039;t have the evolutionary stresses that we have and these are key to how we use those neurons...unless someone adds those evolutionary stresses to the software.

I cannot imagine how to do this, but the software would need to engender an instruction to execute a choice based on the CPU&#039;s own decision - and &quot;digi-self&quot; is born (see, HAL9000 in 2001).  

So the CPU ends up being like one of us, but with no body. And I meet these guys every day on DM and CTF; no visible body but a representation of their intelligence in cyberspace (and I use the term intelligence loosely).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice angle, Philip. Existential philosophy x HL = ?<br />
Before we transfer our consciousness into the next CPU, we have to ask what we are really transferring. </p>
<p>Consciousness is &#8220;only&#8221; a complex mix of real and virtual thoughts &#8211; basically, billions of neurons firing in a controlled way. With enough memory and processing power, we will get that into a machine one day. </p>
<p>But would it then have consciousness? I don&#8217;t think so, because it won&#8217;t have the evolutionary stresses that we have and these are key to how we use those neurons&#8230;unless someone adds those evolutionary stresses to the software.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine how to do this, but the software would need to engender an instruction to execute a choice based on the CPU&#8217;s own decision &#8211; and &#8220;digi-self&#8221; is born (see, HAL9000 in 2001).  </p>
<p>So the CPU ends up being like one of us, but with no body. And I meet these guys every day on DM and CTF; no visible body but a representation of their intelligence in cyberspace (and I use the term intelligence loosely).
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		<title>By: Jike</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208314</link>
		<dc:creator>Jike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208314</guid>
		<description>God damn philosophy. My stupid teacher gave me D+ in it this year...

But Matrix is awesome. You hopefully understand I only mean the first part! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God damn philosophy. My stupid teacher gave me D+ in it this year&#8230;</p>
<p>But Matrix is awesome. You hopefully understand I only mean the first part! <img src='http://www.planetphillip.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Stratofarius</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208304</link>
		<dc:creator>Stratofarius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208304</guid>
		<description>Hey, Phillip, if you join Taco n&#039; Banana, warn me, cause I play there too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Phillip, if you join Taco n&#8217; Banana, warn me, cause I play there too.
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		<title>By: SolidFake</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208294</link>
		<dc:creator>SolidFake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208294</guid>
		<description>One of my favourite discussion!
What am I? Am I my body with my organs? Are all my thoughts just organic material set together to an intelligent working system?
I shortly read the great cyberpunk book Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan, and I heavily recommend it to you if you are interested in future theories and possibilities.
I&#039;ll give you a short overview:
In the future, people minds are saved in small boxes inside their head, so called stacks, when they die, their mind is still alive in their stack. Then you can simply transfer your stack in a clone of yourself or any other clone, so called sleeves. With this method you can live theoretically forever. Very interesting is that the main character of the book dies at the beginning and gets resleeved in a new body, which does look different to his old. Sometimes he gets sick of seeing himself in the mirror and gets paranoia, there&#039;s e.g. a great scene where his mind talks with his body.
Ghost in the shell questions more if you are still human if you change &quot;nearly&quot; all your organic material against a full body cyborg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favourite discussion!<br />
What am I? Am I my body with my organs? Are all my thoughts just organic material set together to an intelligent working system?<br />
I shortly read the great cyberpunk book Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan, and I heavily recommend it to you if you are interested in future theories and possibilities.<br />
I&#8217;ll give you a short overview:<br />
In the future, people minds are saved in small boxes inside their head, so called stacks, when they die, their mind is still alive in their stack. Then you can simply transfer your stack in a clone of yourself or any other clone, so called sleeves. With this method you can live theoretically forever. Very interesting is that the main character of the book dies at the beginning and gets resleeved in a new body, which does look different to his old. Sometimes he gets sick of seeing himself in the mirror and gets paranoia, there&#8217;s e.g. a great scene where his mind talks with his body.<br />
Ghost in the shell questions more if you are still human if you change &#8220;nearly&#8221; all your organic material against a full body cyborg.
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		<title>By: electro</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208283</link>
		<dc:creator>electro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208283</guid>
		<description>I am wondering - what about a developer. 
Take the philosophical position as mentioned as above: &#039;Cogito ergo sum&#039; - another philosopher claimed that we can only really exist, if we are recognized by others as an existing thing. 

So, what if a developer produces something. It will most likely be a projection of some sort - a projection of his inner world (or whatever you&#039;d like to call it - consciousness? - I dunno). And even though it might not be too obvious (and most likely not to himself) there is some auto-biographical aspect in that piece of work.

So in some sense, that guy is in the product - he made it, and ideally he made his product in a way, in which the system of the game is able to respond in a similar way as he would himself. 
Now - if someone&#039;d go and play that game, what they&#039;d do at the same time is actively put input into the system, taken into account that there is a system (so accepting that a system exists), which ultimately provides the acceptance of the existence of the developer in the first place?

Might be a bit, well, mindfuck? Dunno
Just some thoughts on this,
- electro</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering &#8211; what about a developer.<br />
Take the philosophical position as mentioned as above: &#8216;Cogito ergo sum&#8217; &#8211; another philosopher claimed that we can only really exist, if we are recognized by others as an existing thing. </p>
<p>So, what if a developer produces something. It will most likely be a projection of some sort &#8211; a projection of his inner world (or whatever you&#8217;d like to call it &#8211; consciousness? &#8211; I dunno). And even though it might not be too obvious (and most likely not to himself) there is some auto-biographical aspect in that piece of work.</p>
<p>So in some sense, that guy is in the product &#8211; he made it, and ideally he made his product in a way, in which the system of the game is able to respond in a similar way as he would himself.<br />
Now &#8211; if someone&#8217;d go and play that game, what they&#8217;d do at the same time is actively put input into the system, taken into account that there is a system (so accepting that a system exists), which ultimately provides the acceptance of the existence of the developer in the first place?</p>
<p>Might be a bit, well, mindfuck? Dunno<br />
Just some thoughts on this,<br />
- electro
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		<title>By: Ol' Scratch</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208261</link>
		<dc:creator>Ol' Scratch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208261</guid>
		<description>&quot;Cogito, Ergo Sum&quot;, &quot;I think, therefore I am&quot;.  

But what form thought?  Do lower forms of life think?  Do they realize they think?  And do they recognize their own existence?   

[THESE, and other questions, NEXT TIME!!  on... &quot;AS THE ZOMBIE TURNS!&quot; ]

Okay... enough silliness.  It&#039;s valid, because by questioning our own existence, we validate said existence.  

We crave escapism.  We seek diversion, even if our lives are as peachy-keen and perfect as possible, we still seek more--see those spoiled rich brats who end up into drugs and lawbreaking, despite having EVERYTHING handed to them on a silver platter.  The poor kid at his old P4 that&#039;s barely able to run HL2 at 640x480, as he plays every mod and release over and over again.  

Perhaps it&#039;s a matter of perspective.

I work for a major home-improvement big-box store, and lately I think it &quot;(b)Lowe&#039;s&quot; (cough, cough), for many reasons.  However, I have to remind myself that, especially now in these troubled economic times, I&#039;m damned lucky to even be working and having an income sufficient to have this speedy Internet connection, the wherewithal to build a rig that makes HL2 run like reality, and the ability to sit here and cogitate upon the consciousness of  humankind.

I immerse quite well into games, especially if they are good ones.  Suspension of disbelief is important, and if the game is done well, the suspension is easy--just like with movies:  if a movie screws up the little details, it makes that suspension impossible, and ruins the experience.  And the same applies to a game:  if it doesn&#039;t *seem* real, then the nitpicking starts.

Of course, human imagination is key to this:  if it weren&#039;t for that, we&#039;d NEVER enjoy games like DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D--anyone remember the flying octopus brains??  The first time I encountered them, that night I dreamt they were coming down out of the ceiling attacking--woke the wife up to get her out of the way!!  It&#039;s that sort of imagination that makes things like movies, TV, and games work.

Will we humans ever be able to move our consciousnesses into machines/networks/games/movies/etc??  Not in our lifetimes, I think;  and given how things are going for humans right now, I don&#039;t think we&#039;ll get there for a very very long time, if ever.  It&#039;s fun to think about;  and I think the whole concept comes from our tendency to try to &quot;mystify&quot; our lives and make them &quot;better&quot; than those of the mere animals, and then put some sort of &quot;spirituality&quot; into our lives to assure us that when we die we&#039;ll live on--I&#039;m sure out of sheer fear of our demises.  

So, in the meanwhile, we use our quite capable imaginations, and suspend disbelief, and play our games, and delve deep into the mythos created for our enjoyment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cogito, Ergo Sum&#8221;, &#8220;I think, therefore I am&#8221;.  </p>
<p>But what form thought?  Do lower forms of life think?  Do they realize they think?  And do they recognize their own existence?   </p>
<p>[THESE, and other questions, NEXT TIME!!  on... "AS THE ZOMBIE TURNS!" ]</p>
<p>Okay&#8230; enough silliness.  It&#8217;s valid, because by questioning our own existence, we validate said existence.  </p>
<p>We crave escapism.  We seek diversion, even if our lives are as peachy-keen and perfect as possible, we still seek more&#8211;see those spoiled rich brats who end up into drugs and lawbreaking, despite having EVERYTHING handed to them on a silver platter.  The poor kid at his old P4 that&#8217;s barely able to run HL2 at 640&#215;480, as he plays every mod and release over and over again.  </p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s a matter of perspective.</p>
<p>I work for a major home-improvement big-box store, and lately I think it &#8220;(b)Lowe&#8217;s&#8221; (cough, cough), for many reasons.  However, I have to remind myself that, especially now in these troubled economic times, I&#8217;m damned lucky to even be working and having an income sufficient to have this speedy Internet connection, the wherewithal to build a rig that makes HL2 run like reality, and the ability to sit here and cogitate upon the consciousness of  humankind.</p>
<p>I immerse quite well into games, especially if they are good ones.  Suspension of disbelief is important, and if the game is done well, the suspension is easy&#8211;just like with movies:  if a movie screws up the little details, it makes that suspension impossible, and ruins the experience.  And the same applies to a game:  if it doesn&#8217;t *seem* real, then the nitpicking starts.</p>
<p>Of course, human imagination is key to this:  if it weren&#8217;t for that, we&#8217;d NEVER enjoy games like DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D&#8211;anyone remember the flying octopus brains??  The first time I encountered them, that night I dreamt they were coming down out of the ceiling attacking&#8211;woke the wife up to get her out of the way!!  It&#8217;s that sort of imagination that makes things like movies, TV, and games work.</p>
<p>Will we humans ever be able to move our consciousnesses into machines/networks/games/movies/etc??  Not in our lifetimes, I think;  and given how things are going for humans right now, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll get there for a very very long time, if ever.  It&#8217;s fun to think about;  and I think the whole concept comes from our tendency to try to &#8220;mystify&#8221; our lives and make them &#8220;better&#8221; than those of the mere animals, and then put some sort of &#8220;spirituality&#8221; into our lives to assure us that when we die we&#8217;ll live on&#8211;I&#8217;m sure out of sheer fear of our demises.  </p>
<p>So, in the meanwhile, we use our quite capable imaginations, and suspend disbelief, and play our games, and delve deep into the mythos created for our enjoyment.
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		<title>By: Bluncheonmeat</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208258</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluncheonmeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208258</guid>
		<description>An interesting article. Personally, it&#039;s impossible for me to get immersed in a game enough that I actually feel like I&#039;m in it (probably due to that fact that there are save-points). However, with movies, I often lose touch with reality (at least momentarily). 

In regards to transplanting human consciousness, it should be possible one day to have our minds connected to virtual worlds, since there are already ways (though primitive) to artificially input some stimuli into the mind. To put consciousness into a non-brain form may just be too difficult at the moment though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting article. Personally, it&#8217;s impossible for me to get immersed in a game enough that I actually feel like I&#8217;m in it (probably due to that fact that there are save-points). However, with movies, I often lose touch with reality (at least momentarily). </p>
<p>In regards to transplanting human consciousness, it should be possible one day to have our minds connected to virtual worlds, since there are already ways (though primitive) to artificially input some stimuli into the mind. To put consciousness into a non-brain form may just be too difficult at the moment though.
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		<title>By: Zeeky</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/ghost-in-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-208254</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeeky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/?p=6041#comment-208254</guid>
		<description>When I was about 8 I was playing Golden Eye for the 64 and my cousins wouldnt shut up, so I tried to shoot them with a silenced pistol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was about 8 I was playing Golden Eye for the 64 and my cousins wouldnt shut up, so I tried to shoot them with a silenced pistol.
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