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	<title>Comments on: Subjective or Objective?</title>
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	<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/</link>
	<description>Finishing Half-Life is just the beginning!</description>
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		<title>By: Stranger</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154392</link>
		<dc:creator>Stranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154392</guid>
		<description>Having the rating and reviews prominent helps my mods. Without them they are just rather ugly/unimpressive looking, and not very many people download them. (You can&#039;t exactly see game play just by looking at the screenshots.) Besides, most people who come to this site probably come for maps with reviews, so they can know whether something is worth their time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having the rating and reviews prominent helps my mods. Without them they are just rather ugly/unimpressive looking, and not very many people download them. (You can&#8217;t exactly see game play just by looking at the screenshots.) Besides, most people who come to this site probably come for maps with reviews, so they can know whether something is worth their time.
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		<title>By: paddyL</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154293</link>
		<dc:creator>paddyL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154293</guid>
		<description>&quot;...it removes subjectivity and attempts to replace it with objectivity&quot;

I&#039;m not sure this is possible. People play mods - I presume - for enjoyment and that is never an objective event, because it involves an experience. For example I prefer longer mods and I dont play the shorter ones regardless of the reviews. Simply because they do not satisfy a core experience I am looking for from a mod. Some one who likes shorter mods will seek a different experience and make a different choice. The main content will always reflect the half life world in one form or another and the type of experience people seek from revisiting it through mods will, I suspect, remain similar, reflecting the original satisfaction they got from the HL world.

People like to know whats in a mod and what others found there, at the same time I think most people will want to play any mod that sounds like it will satisfy the experience they like to get, unless it seems too buggy. It seems to me we are all preconditioned by our individual experience of the HL world and  that works to consistantly influence the expectations we hope a mod will satisfy. 

There is also the reality, I suspect, that some people can be a bit harsh when their needs are not met and the efforts, generosity and status of the mod makers are not taken into consideration.   
What Kasperg writes makes sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;it removes subjectivity and attempts to replace it with objectivity&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure this is possible. People play mods &#8211; I presume &#8211; for enjoyment and that is never an objective event, because it involves an experience. For example I prefer longer mods and I dont play the shorter ones regardless of the reviews. Simply because they do not satisfy a core experience I am looking for from a mod. Some one who likes shorter mods will seek a different experience and make a different choice. The main content will always reflect the half life world in one form or another and the type of experience people seek from revisiting it through mods will, I suspect, remain similar, reflecting the original satisfaction they got from the HL world.</p>
<p>People like to know whats in a mod and what others found there, at the same time I think most people will want to play any mod that sounds like it will satisfy the experience they like to get, unless it seems too buggy. It seems to me we are all preconditioned by our individual experience of the HL world and  that works to consistantly influence the expectations we hope a mod will satisfy. </p>
<p>There is also the reality, I suspect, that some people can be a bit harsh when their needs are not met and the efforts, generosity and status of the mod makers are not taken into consideration.<br />
What Kasperg writes makes sense to me.
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		<title>By: feckineejit</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154262</link>
		<dc:creator>feckineejit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154262</guid>
		<description>Okay, well I guess it is subjective to the players expectations of enjoyment from the mod.  For me I like a mod to be pretty long, because I like to get into the story (even if there is no story) and see something through.  I like there to be quite a challenge - it should feel like I am up against some pretty tough odds and I have to really use cover, watch my health, use the right weapons for the enemies, etc.  

I like to see new uses for the physics engine - e.g. a mod that uses props to complete a platforming puzzle, or interesting uses for vehicles or an energy field puzzle that requires some thought.  These breaks help to alleviate battle fatigue and help to make the mod seem bigger/longer than it may be otherwise.  

I like short/ unfinished/ experimental mods, sure - but only if I know they are going to be that way when I am loading them.  I sometimes wish I could be a tester because I really like to muck around the levels and, &quot;see what I can break&quot;.

Tags on their own are not useful, comments give tags context and explain why someone did or did not like the mod/level.  Someone may hate a mod and rate it poorly, but it could be because they felt it was too hard or something.  I always read ratings before I play a mod and usually play it anyway because I like to put in my two cents worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, well I guess it is subjective to the players expectations of enjoyment from the mod.  For me I like a mod to be pretty long, because I like to get into the story (even if there is no story) and see something through.  I like there to be quite a challenge &#8211; it should feel like I am up against some pretty tough odds and I have to really use cover, watch my health, use the right weapons for the enemies, etc.  </p>
<p>I like to see new uses for the physics engine &#8211; e.g. a mod that uses props to complete a platforming puzzle, or interesting uses for vehicles or an energy field puzzle that requires some thought.  These breaks help to alleviate battle fatigue and help to make the mod seem bigger/longer than it may be otherwise.  </p>
<p>I like short/ unfinished/ experimental mods, sure &#8211; but only if I know they are going to be that way when I am loading them.  I sometimes wish I could be a tester because I really like to muck around the levels and, &#8220;see what I can break&#8221;.</p>
<p>Tags on their own are not useful, comments give tags context and explain why someone did or did not like the mod/level.  Someone may hate a mod and rate it poorly, but it could be because they felt it was too hard or something.  I always read ratings before I play a mod and usually play it anyway because I like to put in my two cents worth.
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		<title>By: MrTwoVideoCards</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154218</link>
		<dc:creator>MrTwoVideoCards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154218</guid>
		<description>Indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed.
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		<title>By: mel</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154167</link>
		<dc:creator>mel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154167</guid>
		<description>So many issues and points to consider, let me first say that I am not keen about the value of tags as Phillip, they tell me little about the mod/map, how it plays, if it has issues and I am not sure if Phillips Tag system will tell me anything I want to know about the game. Ok, it’s an indication to the content to a point, but so what, if it’s not quantified I don’t see a point or a use. We know Phillip is no great lover of reviews and maybe he sees the tag system as a possible alternative to reviews, for me there is no alternative other then forgetting and ignoring reviews, tags and ranking by just playing the mods to find out yourself. 

Someone said to me not long ago over a political discussion, I need a government and a leader to tell me what to do, democracy seems to have came a longway, or do I mean wayward. So it would seem that many gamers need reviews and most reviews are written with the gamer in mind not the mod author, if the author can extract something of use from the review all well and good, but my reviews are not aimed at him. For myself I normally skip through most reviews looking for the general thread and to be honest tend to latch more so to negatives then positive, my attitude is one of playing each and every mod and whilst a review my discourage me from playing a game I don’t need to read a review to play the game. Something’s do effect my decision not to play a mod, multiple post calling the mod rubbish, mods listed arena type, although there are a couple of good ones but in the main most are a poor excuse for mapping or the lack of.  Also maps with no content in terms of story or action just sets, they maybe good design but should not be categories under the same heading as single person shooters, because they don’t shoot. 

If you think I am getting away from the point, you are right but I am only following treads that the blog has already thrown up.

I only thing that determines a good game to the player is what he gets from playing it and that’s the subjective part, we don’t all like the same thing, we don’t all share the same experiences. There is an advert currently on US TV it starts ‘Is Size Important’ the answer for me which is different then the advert is; no it’s not important a good game is a good game no matter how long or short, there’s plenty of good, bad and ugly games in all lengths, some times you want a short game to end quickly and sometime you want a long game never to end and visa a versa. The best and most rewarding thing you can get from any custom built mod is FUN, so go get some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So many issues and points to consider, let me first say that I am not keen about the value of tags as Phillip, they tell me little about the mod/map, how it plays, if it has issues and I am not sure if Phillips Tag system will tell me anything I want to know about the game. Ok, it’s an indication to the content to a point, but so what, if it’s not quantified I don’t see a point or a use. We know Phillip is no great lover of reviews and maybe he sees the tag system as a possible alternative to reviews, for me there is no alternative other then forgetting and ignoring reviews, tags and ranking by just playing the mods to find out yourself. </p>
<p>Someone said to me not long ago over a political discussion, I need a government and a leader to tell me what to do, democracy seems to have came a longway, or do I mean wayward. So it would seem that many gamers need reviews and most reviews are written with the gamer in mind not the mod author, if the author can extract something of use from the review all well and good, but my reviews are not aimed at him. For myself I normally skip through most reviews looking for the general thread and to be honest tend to latch more so to negatives then positive, my attitude is one of playing each and every mod and whilst a review my discourage me from playing a game I don’t need to read a review to play the game. Something’s do effect my decision not to play a mod, multiple post calling the mod rubbish, mods listed arena type, although there are a couple of good ones but in the main most are a poor excuse for mapping or the lack of.  Also maps with no content in terms of story or action just sets, they maybe good design but should not be categories under the same heading as single person shooters, because they don’t shoot. </p>
<p>If you think I am getting away from the point, you are right but I am only following treads that the blog has already thrown up.</p>
<p>I only thing that determines a good game to the player is what he gets from playing it and that’s the subjective part, we don’t all like the same thing, we don’t all share the same experiences. There is an advert currently on US TV it starts ‘Is Size Important’ the answer for me which is different then the advert is; no it’s not important a good game is a good game no matter how long or short, there’s plenty of good, bad and ugly games in all lengths, some times you want a short game to end quickly and sometime you want a long game never to end and visa a versa. The best and most rewarding thing you can get from any custom built mod is FUN, so go get some.
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		<title>By: andyb</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154162</link>
		<dc:creator>andyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154162</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never givin a mod/map a bad rating simply because I cant do it so it gets a 2out of 10 right off the bat.I play any single player maps/mods that come out.Those that take more time to install than play time go down on the list.I loved C to A simply because it was different.It doesnt have to involve different enemies just new landscape would suffice.I liked the citezen because it offered something different.Union offered a different play style too and that was welcomed.You cant judge a mod on reviews IMO unless they all say to buggy.And even then I&#039;d try it just to see if I can remove the bugs because thats the way I am.

Minerva was really good but not my kind of atmoshere/setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never givin a mod/map a bad rating simply because I cant do it so it gets a 2out of 10 right off the bat.I play any single player maps/mods that come out.Those that take more time to install than play time go down on the list.I loved C to A simply because it was different.It doesnt have to involve different enemies just new landscape would suffice.I liked the citezen because it offered something different.Union offered a different play style too and that was welcomed.You cant judge a mod on reviews IMO unless they all say to buggy.And even then I&#8217;d try it just to see if I can remove the bugs because thats the way I am.</p>
<p>Minerva was really good but not my kind of atmoshere/setting.
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		<title>By: Kasperg</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154156</link>
		<dc:creator>Kasperg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154156</guid>
		<description>The way maps are reviewed has more to do with the relationship between &quot;what we expect/want&quot; and &quot;what we get&quot; and goes beyond the technical aspects of mapping.
Objective facts about a map such as texturing, ambiance, brushwork etc can be flawless and the map can still not be interesting or successful.
Things like a story, a certain rhythm, a purpose, unexpected or spectacular events and places etc. are needed to make a map or mod stand above the rest.
And even with those ingredients, there&#039;s no way every player will be satisfied, because every player is different. Speaking of the half-life series it&#039;s obvious there&#039;s things we all like, yet I&#039;m 100% sure there are no two persons that like exactly the same parts of the Half-life saga or like the same games outside the FPS genre. I&#039;d be surprised.

While I agree that everyone is entitled to voice their opinion on a map, mod or game, I&#039;m usually not fond of subjective reviews that are useless to both the mapper and other players, specially if they are negative. Constructive criticism is useful if it&#039;s based on elements of the map that can easily be corrected in that particular project or in future releases. Other things like disliking a whole theme that can obviously not be changed isn&#039;t helpful. You don&#039;t like prison maps like Union or Riot Act? The mapper can&#039;t do anything about that, so that type of comment is IMO useless after release.
Mappers like positive subjective feedback, I won&#039;t deny that, but my guess is that everyone likes to be praised for the hard work they have done for the free enjoyment of other players. I&#039;m not sure why mappers and modders are scrutinized like real developers though, as if someone was angry that a certain quality standard wasn&#039;t met in a product that is really not a product, since it was free. It&#039;s probably related to how the gap between professional and amateur level designed has been reduced. After playing a game like Half-life 2, we expect the rest of maps we play to keep the same standard. That&#039;s easier said than done.

I kind of agree that the tag system could be useful to let players really know what they will find. Still, two mods with the same tags like &quot;Elite combine, gunship, fast zombies, driving section&quot; can be radically different in quality. We still need written opinions to put the experience into words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way maps are reviewed has more to do with the relationship between &#8220;what we expect/want&#8221; and &#8220;what we get&#8221; and goes beyond the technical aspects of mapping.<br />
Objective facts about a map such as texturing, ambiance, brushwork etc can be flawless and the map can still not be interesting or successful.<br />
Things like a story, a certain rhythm, a purpose, unexpected or spectacular events and places etc. are needed to make a map or mod stand above the rest.<br />
And even with those ingredients, there&#8217;s no way every player will be satisfied, because every player is different. Speaking of the half-life series it&#8217;s obvious there&#8217;s things we all like, yet I&#8217;m 100% sure there are no two persons that like exactly the same parts of the Half-life saga or like the same games outside the FPS genre. I&#8217;d be surprised.</p>
<p>While I agree that everyone is entitled to voice their opinion on a map, mod or game, I&#8217;m usually not fond of subjective reviews that are useless to both the mapper and other players, specially if they are negative. Constructive criticism is useful if it&#8217;s based on elements of the map that can easily be corrected in that particular project or in future releases. Other things like disliking a whole theme that can obviously not be changed isn&#8217;t helpful. You don&#8217;t like prison maps like Union or Riot Act? The mapper can&#8217;t do anything about that, so that type of comment is IMO useless after release.<br />
Mappers like positive subjective feedback, I won&#8217;t deny that, but my guess is that everyone likes to be praised for the hard work they have done for the free enjoyment of other players. I&#8217;m not sure why mappers and modders are scrutinized like real developers though, as if someone was angry that a certain quality standard wasn&#8217;t met in a product that is really not a product, since it was free. It&#8217;s probably related to how the gap between professional and amateur level designed has been reduced. After playing a game like Half-life 2, we expect the rest of maps we play to keep the same standard. That&#8217;s easier said than done.</p>
<p>I kind of agree that the tag system could be useful to let players really know what they will find. Still, two mods with the same tags like &#8220;Elite combine, gunship, fast zombies, driving section&#8221; can be radically different in quality. We still need written opinions to put the experience into words.
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		<title>By: MrTwoVideoCards</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154153</link>
		<dc:creator>MrTwoVideoCards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154153</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all very interesting how the Mod process can go, and mainly how mods can involve so much work to the point where they are boring to play. 

I&#039;ve seen mods that have introduced new textures, models, story, and basically a total conversion of Half Life 2, to only be boring to play and no fun at all. One perfect example is this: Project Valkyrie was a fantastic mod that introduced a new setting to the DM concept under Half Life 2. However people became to bored of the DM concept even though ti was reinvented, and the mod has not been played at all hardly, and 3 months wen to waste on a great mod, but none have hardly played it. The problem lies with other mods too, custom content tends to really attract people, and most people look for innovation rather than the same idea over and over. 

Coastline was a boring mod, sure the level design was meh, it was a long mod, but it was the same scenario. Shoot combine, continue, shoot combine continue. This also is a problem with most mods. It all really is based on the people, and their insights to game making. Some people think its easy, while others can full appreciate the time and hard work it takes. There is really no formula to making a great mod. It&#039;s either you strike gold or not. That is always how it will be in game making. 

The only thing you can do is try your best, and do things in a good way, but still theres a giant amount of luck behind it. Another thing said above was the issue with peoples names behind it. Sure, thats also another factor. If a guy like Adam foster is know for making a mod hyped up like Minerva, then sure, when people hear that name, their gonna download whatever he makes. But that doesn&#039;t mean he can make anything of course and get fantastic downloads with it. 

Really, mods are mods, and people take them to great lenghts to either fail, or make it. One thing thats always the same is, that quality is still the best factor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all very interesting how the Mod process can go, and mainly how mods can involve so much work to the point where they are boring to play. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen mods that have introduced new textures, models, story, and basically a total conversion of Half Life 2, to only be boring to play and no fun at all. One perfect example is this: Project Valkyrie was a fantastic mod that introduced a new setting to the DM concept under Half Life 2. However people became to bored of the DM concept even though ti was reinvented, and the mod has not been played at all hardly, and 3 months wen to waste on a great mod, but none have hardly played it. The problem lies with other mods too, custom content tends to really attract people, and most people look for innovation rather than the same idea over and over. </p>
<p>Coastline was a boring mod, sure the level design was meh, it was a long mod, but it was the same scenario. Shoot combine, continue, shoot combine continue. This also is a problem with most mods. It all really is based on the people, and their insights to game making. Some people think its easy, while others can full appreciate the time and hard work it takes. There is really no formula to making a great mod. It&#8217;s either you strike gold or not. That is always how it will be in game making. </p>
<p>The only thing you can do is try your best, and do things in a good way, but still theres a giant amount of luck behind it. Another thing said above was the issue with peoples names behind it. Sure, thats also another factor. If a guy like Adam foster is know for making a mod hyped up like Minerva, then sure, when people hear that name, their gonna download whatever he makes. But that doesn&#8217;t mean he can make anything of course and get fantastic downloads with it. </p>
<p>Really, mods are mods, and people take them to great lenghts to either fail, or make it. One thing thats always the same is, that quality is still the best factor.
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		<title>By: planetphillip</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154147</link>
		<dc:creator>planetphillip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154147</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; I noticed you had written a fairly opinionated description of Farscape (which was, in my opinion, not a fair way of introducing people to the mod).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You are right and I have changed it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;could it be possible to hide them by default but allow a user to view them with the click of a button? Just a suggestion.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, it&#039;s probably possible and it was considered, along with hiding the comments and making the reader click to view them.  Luke and I decided that it wasn&#039;t actually very easy to use and ultimately decided against it.

I actually think that 99% of readers would want to view it before they played a mod anyway.  I almost wish I could link to their SAteam account and the rating would only be visible and usable after they have played it.  Of course I am joking but it would be interesting to see what would happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I noticed you had written a fairly opinionated description of Farscape (which was, in my opinion, not a fair way of introducing people to the mod).</p></blockquote>
<p>You are right and I have changed it.</p>
<blockquote><p>could it be possible to hide them by default but allow a user to view them with the click of a button? Just a suggestion.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s probably possible and it was considered, along with hiding the comments and making the reader click to view them.  Luke and I decided that it wasn&#8217;t actually very easy to use and ultimately decided against it.</p>
<p>I actually think that 99% of readers would want to view it before they played a mod anyway.  I almost wish I could link to their SAteam account and the rating would only be visible and usable after they have played it.  Of course I am joking but it would be interesting to see what would happen.
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		<title>By: CrowbarSka</title>
		<link>http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/comment-page-1/#comment-154145</link>
		<dc:creator>CrowbarSka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/subjective-or-objective/#comment-154145</guid>
		<description>Some interesting points you have made. I was actually thinking about preconceptions earlier as I noticed you had written a fairly opinionated description of Farscape (which was, in my opinion, not a fair way of introducing people to the mod).

Regarding the problem of viewing ratings before downloading a mod/map, could it be possible to hide them by default but allow a user to view them with the click of a button? Just a suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some interesting points you have made. I was actually thinking about preconceptions earlier as I noticed you had written a fairly opinionated description of Farscape (which was, in my opinion, not a fair way of introducing people to the mod).</p>
<p>Regarding the problem of viewing ratings before downloading a mod/map, could it be possible to hide them by default but allow a user to view them with the click of a button? Just a suggestion.
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